Is this the death knell for competition in football?

Football changed when English clubs get too much TV revenue. Gone will be the days when you can sign Roy Keane for £3.75 million, a record then in 1993. 15 years on, the record fee is almost ten times that amount. Actually, the person/s to be blame would be the Premier League board, Richard Scudamore and his cronies. They allowed this sort of money into the Premier League. And yes, England has more problems than other footballing nations.

Still, there is more value for players for clubs outside England when they conduct their transfers. David Villa costed Valencia £8.2 million when he signed for them, half of what Darren Bent signed for Tottenham and less than 1/3 of what we signed for Berbatov.

So clearly, the problem is with the money put into the English game. And for most clubs around the world, they will do their best to suck every pound or euro from the English clubs when selling their players.

PS. I bought Kevin Nolan and Ricardo Vaz Te for £10.25 million each, and they were playing in the Championship.

I'd like to see this discussion being brought up if it were Ramaldense who had been bought by that Dubai guy or something...

Ramala what?

Filipower;2568708 said:

I'd like to see this discussion being brought up if it were Ramaldense who had been bought by that Dubai guy or something...

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Yeah, but Portugese leagues aren't as popular as English or Spanish or Italian. So for investors it would be stupid to buy a team like that because there is not enough money being potential offered in return. Where as EPL is the most watched annual sporting competition in the world, the tv revenue is huge, exposure to different sales markets is immense and the presence of huge clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea makes it more attractive to market the league further and increase profits. Like i said, these guys aren't throwing money just to say that they created the best team in the world, they want to make it a francise like Manchester United that will be making constant streams of revenue in hundreds of millions of dollars every year. They made their intentions clear in very first interview where they said that they want to apply new marketing strategies and EPL is the best possible platform to market a club.

The only thing that is annoying me is that this guy is apparently considering making a 130 million bid for a player. What the **** man?

Nah, that would be the best ever to me. If only all our players were bought for 13 million and sold for 130 million 6 years later.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/05092008/58/premier-league-manchester-city-s-shopping-list.html

They won't get most of those players. For example, Messi would never leave Barcelona for City, no matter what kind of money is thrown his way. Cesc will either stay at Arsenal or go to Spain.

Is it feasible for the whole of Europe to be salary capped? Or atleast the big four organizations? That's the only way to ensure parity, imo.


Take the NFL for example, which has the most successful system both monetarily and equity wise in the World.....the last 8 teams out of 14 who won the league championship didn't even make the playoffs the year after....that's how cutthroat and balanced it is.


I'd imagine that 8-12 teams would have a legitimate shot at winning the EPL title in any given year if the league chose to implement a cap, man.

The thing with American sports Yoss, is their draft transfer system.

The J. League manages a rather good mix of parity and capitalism.

Bobby;2569158 said:

The J. League manages a rather good mix of parity and capitalism.

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Aren't most of the J-League clubs owned by corporations though?

I love the never ending circle of these arguements and that in the most you can just check the sig rather than read the post

MikeyM;2569339 said:

Aren't most of the J-League clubs owned by corporations though?

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No, they can't be corporate if they want to join the J. League. A lot of JFL (tier 3) clubs are that way though.

To get promoted to J2 you have to be a non-corporate club, a J. League associate member, and finish in the top four of the JFL.

Bobby;2569555 said:

No, they can't be corporate if they want to join the J. League. A lot of JFL (tier 3) clubs are that way though.

To get promoted to J2 you have to be a non-corporate club, a J. League associate member, and finish in the top four of the JFL.

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Oh right, I always thought J League was founded by the mega corporations.

Nah, J. League was created to make football less corporate and more accessible.

Teams all have ties to "hometown" areas now. Most of the names, despite their weirdness to Western ears, have a connection with the area. For instance, Kashima Antlers. Kashima literally means "deer island", so it makes sense.

The JFA's masterplan for the J. League is to have 100 teams spread over five levels (Which would be called J1-J5) all throughout Japan. This is called the "Hundred Year Plan".

...I should really be a football writer.

Edit: This is the current J. Lg table
1. Nagoya Grampus 42
2. Kashima Antlers 41 (+19)
3. Urawa Reds 41 (+14)
4. Oita Trinita 41 (+9)
5. Kawasaki Frontale 40
-----
12. Vissel Kobe 30
13. Albirex Niigata 29
14. Shimizu S-Pulse 28
15. Yokohama F. Marinos 26 (-1)
16. Júbilo Iwata 26 (-5)

16th being the relegation playoff spot. 17 and 18 go down, JEF United Ichihara-Chiba and Consadole Sapporo have been set adrift. JEF are the only Japanese club to have never suffered a relegation, so it's a pretty big deal.

That's pretty exciting

Bobby;2569811 said:

Nah, J. League was created to make football less corporate and more accessible.

Teams all have ties to "hometown" areas now. Most of the names, despite their weirdness to Western ears, have a connection with the area. For instance, Kashima Antlers. Kashima literally means "deer island", so it makes sense.

The JFA's masterplan for the J. League is to have 100 teams spread over five levels (Which would be called J1-J5) all throughout Japan. This is called the "Hundred Year Plan".

...I should really be a football writer.

Edit: This is the current J. Lg table
1. Nagoya Grampus 42
2. Kashima Antlers 41 (+19)
3. Urawa Reds 41 (+14)
4. Oita Trinita 41 (+9)
5. Kawasaki Frontale 40
-----
12. Vissel Kobe 30
13. Albirex Niigata 29
14. Shimizu S-Pulse 28
15. Yokohama F. Marinos 26 (-1)
16. Júbilo Iwata 26 (-5)

16th being the relegation playoff spot. 17 and 18 go down, JEF United Ichihara-Chiba and Consadole Sapporo have been set adrift. JEF are the only Japanese club to have never suffered a relegation, so it's a pretty big deal.

That's pretty exciting

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Thanks - I keep meaning to watch the roundup on Skysports! I have a fondness for the Urawa Reds because they seem to be based on United!

I love that about the Japanese, when they take to a sport - they really take to it!

Summary from a Scouser:


Originally posted on LFC.tv


"A lot of crap has been said about the latest zillionaire takeover of a Premier League™ club, and it’s taken me a while to figure out what I think as I’ve been listening to the mostly loaded and vested interest ridden bile that ‘fans’ and ‘journos’ have been going on about for the past few days.

The way I see it, there are tons of precedents for injecting money into football clubs, and well pre Chelsea. Madrid had their training ground controversially re-zoned out of greenbelt type status into industrial land and then flogged it to skyscraper developers via the government for €480m, 10 years ago, and proceeded to sponk the money on players – two of which, bought 7 and 8 years ago respectively remain the #1 and #2 world record transfer fees. Zidane’s record at €60m in 2001 was about to get beaten in the summer. Who was buying? According to UEFA and Platini, it must be one of these sick Premier League ™ sides who have all this dirty foreign money – but of course no, it was Madrid again, trying to buy someone from our league. Blatter, Platini and Jesus were disgusted that the poor greasy spotty slave couldn’t be bought for any amount of money. Our fault again then.

In fact, in the last 25 years (but of course not for 7) the world record transfer fee has been beaten. Let’s have a look at which clubs managed it:

3 - AC Milan
2 - Inter Milan
2 - Juventus
2 - Real Madrid
1 - Lazio
1 - Napoli
1 - Newcastle United
1 - Real Betis

Milan with three. They must have made their money honestly through their great success. Or maybe that dirty greasy Mafioso that runs their backassward corrupt country was propping them up all along, a bit like Roman? Of the 13 records there, 9 were by Italian sides, 3 Spanish and then Shearer going to the barcodes. Juventus say that they’re a good honest club, who just happen to have had their time in the sun paid for by Fiat since 1923. I don’t get how that is any more honourable either. Was UEFA bothered about things getting out of control when Italy ran it, when Madrid broke the record two seasons running at such a high cost that it still hasn’t been beaten? Oddly not.

In fact, I hate defending either the Mancs or Chelsea, but let’s have it right. They have both bought multiple stars for around 30m, but as they haven’t actually raised the bar the way Milan, Juve and Madrid have since they started, it’s clear that they’re working within a context, a framework and a set of parameters created in Europe. UEFA are only ****** because the English clubs are beating them at their own game – and haven’t even moved the goalposts...yet.

Ah, but Citeh have no history – say the poor *******s from every other ‘big’ club scared of losing a CL place or losing their best players. You know, as if Citeh just started and didn’t have 30,000 watching them in the 3rd division a few years ago and made it back into the top flight on merit (sorry Gillingham). As if they hadn’t won multiple European trophies when Roman was still in nappies. I’d rather it was them than anyone else, having to put up with the Mancs for that long. .. Oh but Madrid are 9 times European Champions, they have all that history – so them being gifted near half a billion euros is different. Balls. Madrid won 5 of them on the spin in the 50s when it was an invitational only, when it made G14 look like an evangelical church, inviting all comers.

But what about them all being dirty foreigners, all these yanks and sheiks are ruining our game and killing our identity, so I’m told. If you hadn't noticed, we're an island with a long history of immigration, global commerce, crusading, invading and empire building. It's how we do stuff, even St George was a Turk. I know that some more inclusive backward European countries that still have peasants working in the fields mightn't be able to get their head round this. They argue that this investment isn’t fair because of the wages we pay, all of a sudden we eclipse the contracts that they dish out in Spain so it isn’t fair. Let’s not get into fair in the context of Daily Mail readers screaming for our lovely nurses and boys dying in Iraq. But compared to other footballers - More people around the world are watching the Premier League™ than any others, they’re playing at a higher level to a far greater global audience. Course it’s ****** fair.

I’m a Liverpool season ticket holder and I can see right away how this shakes us up. No longer guaranteed a 4th spot in a few seasons time – surely that makes us less valuable. We were a shoe in, now we won’t be. Do I care? Do I ********. Bring it on. Like anyone has a divine right to win games. Like CL money bothers me when I’m screaming at my 11 ********* to beat your 11 ********* on a Saturday afternoon. (or Sunday lunchtime, but whatevers)

As for City’s decision to buy Robinho – not sure on that one. I mean, what you really need, when you're at a club where everything has been in flux and no one knows what's really happening and nowhere to turn - what that dressing room really needs for morale, is one crying whinging mercenary ******* in the corner on ten times more wages than everyone else telling the Daily Mirror how he hates the rain and can't get on with Mark Hughes. I’m sure there’ll be another few along soon to cheer him up.

In February 1978, Clough broke the million barrier and doubled the UK transfer record to sign Trevor Francis, who ended up scoring the winning goal in the European Cup Final three months later. Did they buy that title? I’m sure it must have been asked.

The end of football as we know it? Not a chance. It’s just City’s turn. I like going away to City, I love the fans, their songs and having a pint in the Shambles. If they can swap Kaka for cack on the pitch then I’m made up for them. Out of all of us, they deserve a laugh"


great read, makes some good points as well

I've been thinking long and hard about this, since I made those initial points. Granted I was speaking with stupefying amounts of adrenaline and passion coursing through my veins and I think with hindsight, I did a pretty cack handed job of putting a point across.

I know my reputation on these boards (if I had one in the first place) has taken a battering and I guess it's the price I paid for not thinking first. I like to think that I can contribute thought provoking discussion with my fellow football fans and share a bit of banter along the way. Unfortunately on the night I wrote this, the Dimitar Berbatov transfer had been going on and on - and I was concerned that City could scupper the deal. Few things get me more passionate in football than getting new signings - it just fuels the anticipation of the coming campaign. And as documented United were somewhat stuttering in the first weeks.

What I wanted to say was I had concerns before City that football and the money within were spiralling out of control. Unfortunately I guess it turned into a rather thinly disguised attack on Man City which wasn't my intention.

I don't know what it was that made me instantly think City were going to play real life "Football Manager" and destroy everything. As people have rightly said, City can only have 30 players, and only play 11 of them each game.

Also It's true that although City can bid all they like for these players, many will not be lured - although I refused to believe it, Loyalty is still strong for some people (Perhaps the Cristiano saga had left me burned on that one)

Also other clubs will still be more attractive to some. I'm sure there are many players who have dreamed of playing for one club in the world above all others, be it Man Utd, Real, Barca or Liverpool.

I'll admit it's a huge shock to see City suddenly rise from the ashes and become potentially a big player on the European stage. But as others have rightly said, that's football.

So, with my head properly screwed on. I say this, City will not destroy football, merely they will add another face to it's top battles - and I suppose that has to be a good thing. (Even though I hope we smash them at every turn!)

I very seldom see eye to eye with Liverpool fans (the post above) but, barring some borderline racist slurs he does make some good points. So I suppose I have to go against everything I stand for as a United fan and apologise to City's fans (even bloody Rhizome jk )

As I've told others, perhaps it's better to throw your energies into supporting your own club ... and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

So ... I'm sorry for the harsh and rash nature of my post.

Competition in English football died a long time ago, if we define competition as teams genuinely competing for significant trophies.

If we examine the number of different top division winners between '58 and '68, we have 8. Plus a whole bunch of different teams coming in 2nd. THAT is competition. Between '68 and '78 we have 6 different winners. Again, that's pretty competitive. Then between '78 and '88 Liverpool start to dominate and we only have 3 league winners: Villa, Everton and Liverpool. Even so, at least different teams come 2nd such as Watford, Ipswich, Forest and Southampton. Plus, FA Cup winners in that time include teams such as Coventry, Wimbledon, West Ham, Spurs, Ipswich. So it's fair to say it was more competitive as a whole, even though Liverpool were quite dominant during that period. Also, I would imagine the points totals are generally less horribly balanced around the table compared to today.

Since 1988, the last TWENTY seasons, only Spurs, Everton and Portsmouth outside the big 4 have won the FA Cup. Blackburn and Leeds also won the League during this time.

The last 10 seasons are even more bleak in terms of different league winners. People complained about Chelsea ruining football! If it wasn't for them only 2 teams would have won the league since '95.

It's no individual person or team's fault. It's just the way it's gone because nobody took any measures to protect 'competition'. But nobody should think that A) It's anything new, or Chelsea and Man City ruin competition. They may do many things that aren't cool, but they don't reduce the amount of teams competing for honours, they increase it. Genuine competition and hope for historical glory for most teams is definitely dead already.