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Spain vs Italy [P+R+Why Italy Will Win]

N

newbie original

We apologize for keeping the yellow too long
Yellow Card
Looked like a clear dive to me but, either way, he should have made an effort to stay on his feet.

Now, I'd like to know EXACTLY WHEN Fernando Torres was guilty of DIVING. A lot of you guys are lumping him into the conversation with Villa. Now, I missed the entire 1st half but watched the rest of the game and, from what I saw, he was talking a lot to the Italians and getting into verbal arguments with them......but I can't remember him diving or twirling around and landing on the grass!!! I clearly remember Ramos and Villa but can't recall WHEN Torres was guilty of it. Either I missed it (quite a good possibility because I was, at times, half asleep during the 2nd half) or you're mistakenly interpretinging his verbal confrontations as twirling/tossing.........
 
S

Sevillista

Starting XI
Torres never dove. I believe his time in England has helped because he was quite the actor when he played for Atletico.

Say what you will about the Spanish players, nobody was more guilty of diving last night than Luca Toni. Not even close.
 
O

OrgulloVikingo

Senior Squad
Yossarian;2541070 said:
Even though we've had our past differences, Modena speaks the truth here, man. I'm mystified as to why the Italians are being solely condemned for flopping considering the fact that the Spaniards were the more egregious and flagrant of the two by a wide margin. Everytime they got within inches of the box, they were flopping heavily without fail and instantly petitioning the refs for a penalty.....I mean, look at that backwards dive that Ramos did on that corner kick chance....as much as I love the kid, when I saw him noticeably seeking out a penalty like that, I wanted to take a razor to my throat.....I was that revolted......A lot of folks out there just have deep-seated, bordering on the psychotic level of hatred for the Italian NT, I suppose.


Anyway, enough of that.....for a Spain/Italy clash, the game was comparatively clean and without much drama and deceitfulness.


In the end, the Spaniards were by far the better squad. They were the aggressors and the architects of the more dangerous and meaningful goalscoring opportunities. It was pretty obvious to distinguish who wanted to end the game in regular time and who was content to settle it in penalties.

Donadoni's choice in starters was horrible, and as a result, their attack was generally third-rate while the Spaniards were full of vigor and imagination, I thought. It was really strange to watch someone who was soo intelligent and offensively gifted as a player be so unimaginative and foolish as a coach. Why was Perrotta stupidly slotted in Totti's position when he's only a holding midfielder/DM, why was Cassano even on the roster, let alone seeing some major playing minutes, what was with this easily subduable formation and why the **** didnt Quags get more playing time?


The overall superior squad is moving on. I don't think that Italy was deserving to get out of the group stages with that lousy effort yesterday, man.

MOTM.......Silva. I don't profess to know much about the Spanish league outside of Barca and Real, so I'm not too familiar with this kid, but he is just supremely gifted, man. He was wreaking great havoc on the Italians every time he got a whiff of the ball....he's explosive, he's flair-filled and just so awesome to watch, man....reminds me a lot of Modric both in his stature and immense skill level.
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IMO, you are wrong here. No matter who is on the pitch, Italy always landscape. 10 men behind the ball, back passes to goalie, fouls, etc. Thats their style. They don't know how to play differently. Everyone is blaming Donadoni instead of the real reason which is the overall Italian mindset and their approach and views on football!

I just don't understand how a team can go into a quarterfinal wanting to go into pk's. It boggles the mind especially when you have an outstanding keeper in Casillas in goal!!! I wonder if this is a wakeup call to Italian football.

OK, on to Russia. Like Ive said, this is a different Russia than the first match. They will be super motivated and come out strong. Dont look for them to hang out like the Italians. I expect them to come charging. I hope our defensive line shapes up because if not, it'll be a long game.
 
N

newbie original

We apologize for keeping the yellow too long
Yellow Card
Well, they had Buffon in goal so penalties wouldn't have scared Italy as much either, but I don't think they wanted it. Pirlo's injury forced a defensive strategy, that's all.

As far as the overall Italian mindset being defensive is concerned, I enjoyed Italy 4-0 Ukraine in the 2006 WC QF and I'm sure you did too.
 
K

KingPaulV

Starting XI
Hold on a second, is that the norm or was that an exception?....Cause we all know that Italy dont normaly put 4 past anybody...so dont act like yesterday's game was some sort of anomaly, that is how Italy has played for years....its not by coincidence that when we want to talk about an ultra defensive style we call it Cattennaccio...by the name its creators gave it..
 
N

newbie original

We apologize for keeping the yellow too long
Yellow Card
From what I recall reading/hearing, through various media outlets in June 2006, was that Italy were FINALLY getting rid of that style of play, so I assumed* that 4-0 was indicative of that trend reversal. Furthermore, they did play some pretty decent games in EURO qualifying, thereby reinforcing (in my mind anyway) the media's message. So with that in mind, for me, this entire tournament has been an anomaly for Italy.

*I know assumptions are the brother of all ****-ups, but I made one nonetheless to get myself to sit through a FULL 90 mins of Italy's WC games.....
 
S

Sevillista

Starting XI
newbie original;2541125 said:
Well, they had Buffon in goal so penalties wouldn't have scared Italy as much either, but I don't think they wanted it. Pirlo's injury forced a defensive strategy, that's all.

As far as the overall Italian mindset being defensive is concerned, I enjoyed Italy 4-0 Ukraine in the 2006 WC QF and I'm sure you did too.
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I think you mean SPAIN's 4-0 win over the Ukraine in the 2006 WC Group Stage, which truly was an offensive exhibition.

Italy beat the Ukraine 3-0 in those quarterfinals, but it was by no means an offensive match on their part. The Ukraine had the lion's share of the possession that match, Italy just put away their chances. And come on, it's the Ukraine. The Swiss almost knocked them out that year.
 
M

modena_10

Senior Squad
under lippi it was starting to look like we were gonna shake the "catenaccio" tag but in this tourney it came back because donadoni **** his pants the first game.

if anyone watched WC06, the italians played some very attractive football. the germany game, although 0-0 after 118 mins, was an instant classic. amazing match to watch. we should have destroyed the aussies with the chances we had, not to mention the phantom red to matrix, the grosso dive(even though there was contact) was justice to the red. we made simple work of the ukraine early, so yeah they had some possession late so maybe the scoreline should have been 3-1. in the final, the first half was a joy to watch. the 2nd and ET were bad at times but we just didn't have as good of legs as the french(african) midfield.

i hope that our next coach adapts a more complete all around game like lippi did. who knows maybe in the future we will have a foreign coach to shake things up.
 
P

per75005

Reserve Team
modena_10;2541294 said:
i hope that our next coach adapts a more complete all around game like lippi did. who knows maybe in the future we will have a foreign coach to shake things up.
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You should try Raymond he will be free in few days....
 
H

hanek45

Min
thanks God Spain went through... I hate Italy so much.

My thoughts on Spain:
Spain's best players so far: Silva, Iniesta and Casillas. Most midfield is doing pretty well. Torres and Villa were great on the first game but since then i havent really seen much from neither of them. Torres was a huge disappointment on this last game. Guiza: what the **** is he playing?

Senna has been improving, he played mediocre on the first two games. So far Cazorla and Cesc have worked well as substitutes although Cesc didnt really do much against Italy. Capdevilla has been doing good too, and unlike Ramos he is up there only when needed. Puyol: nothing to complain about, hes been doing great. Marchena.. hmm, nothing to coplain about neither. Xavi was really good on the first two games but was pretty lame on the last one. Alonso has only played once I think but he was amazing.

And well.. Aragones of whom I thought as a prick but has lead Spain to where it is now. Short pointless passes being used are a bit frustrating... especially when the ball is being held in the back mainly by Marchena, Senna and puyol.


:sKIp_E:
 
L

Lean

Fan Favourite
newbie original;2541125 said:
Well, they had Buffon in goal so penalties wouldn't have scared Italy as much either, but I don't think they wanted it. Pirlo's injury forced a defensive strategy, that's all.

As far as the overall Italian mindset being defensive is concerned, I enjoyed Italy 4-0 Ukraine in the 2006 WC QF and I'm sure you did too.
Click to expand...

You're talking about one game, but in that WC Italy were outplayed by Ghana, USA, Germany and got their asses handed on plate by France. They beat a very inferior Ukraine and struggled to beat Australia, managing to win 1-0 thanks to a dive by Grosso.

As for their tactics, Pirlo in the pitch or not do you really believe Italy would've played offensively?
 
R

Rocky

Forza Suarez! (ps brotha can you spare a dime?)
Lean;2541396 said:
You're talking about one game, but in that WC Italy were outplayed by Ghana, USA, Germany and got their asses handed on plate by France. They beat a very inferior Ukraine and struggled to beat Australia, managing to win 1-0 thanks to a dive by Grosso.

As for their tactics, Pirlo in the pitch or not do you really believe Italy would've played offensively?
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8|

Ouch, my brain hurts. Outplayed by Ghana, what game were you watching? Italy created more chances, Toni hit the crossbar and Perrota had a good chance denied by an in-form Ghanaian goalie. Ghana only created one dangerous chance that game and it was a shot from Essien that was saved by Buffon.

In the USA game, Italy went ahead, then pretty much immediately went a man down before Zaccardo forgot a how a ball is properly cleared and put the ball in his own net. We scored for the USA, and I very much doubt they would have even threatened our goal that game. After the sending off of De Rossi is what an ugly game on the part of both teams.

Australia, again, Italy was playing well had had created the better chances until Materazzi got sent off for tackling his own team-mate. As for Grosso, please, nobody deny there wasn't contact, because there clearly was. Yeah, he went down lightly, I'll give you that, but it was justification for the ridiculous sending off of Materazzi. Italy had been in control most of the match before the sending off and Australia still struggled to score despite being up a man for much of the second half.

For most of the match, Italy vs. Germany was even. Action packed, end to end stuff, both teams creating chances, not to many bad passes. Except in overtime, when Italy started to pin the German defense and started to attack because it was obvious Italy didn't want penalties. Don't forgot that both Gilardino and Zambrotta hit the post and crossbar respectively. Italy were relentess and didn't give up and scored two goals right at the end. A fully deserved win by an Italian team that didn't surrender.

Handed our asses to us on a plate by France? Is coming back from 1-0 down and a having a legit goal disallowed count as having our asses handed to us? To be honest, both teams didn't look that lively the entire match and it was far from spectacular. That final will be remembered for its drama, not the football that was played.

:rolleyes:
 
Z

Zakov

Senior Squad
Its hard for people to judge a team if they hate the team so much, so bear in mind whatever Italy do, they can't seem to convince people(who hate them) that they do other things besides defending and diving in a football match......
Its like trying to convince Utd fans that City owned their arses last season.
For Italy, the label has been tagged on them, I do agree that they played better football in WC06 compared to this tournament. But they didn't play any worse than Greece 04. And their diving? well, i have to say almost every team has its fair share of divers these days, so what the heck. but Toni was an exception. lol

I think the retirement of Totti and Nesta really hurt them. And they should've included someone like Pippo in the squad, Cassano was really disappointing.
But as we all agree, Spain were the ones that took the initiative in this game so of course going to penalties they were more confident than one would suspect.
Bottom line, Spain fully deserved the victory, Italians need mass rebuilding, bring in the likes of Rossi, Borriello and heck bring in Bolatelli.

btw, watching back the highlights I have to say Senna was really impressive, like a Makelele but with better shooting skills. With someone like him in the team, Spain could go all the way.
 
O

OrgulloVikingo

Senior Squad
modena_10;2541294 said:
under lippi it was starting to look like we were gonna shake the "catenaccio" tag but in this tourney it came back because donadoni **** his pants the first game.

if anyone watched WC06, the italians played some very attractive football. the germany game, although 0-0 after 118 mins, was an instant classic. amazing match to watch. we should have destroyed the aussies with the chances we had, not to mention the phantom red to matrix, the grosso dive(even though there was contact) was justice to the red. we made simple work of the ukraine early, so yeah they had some possession late so maybe the scoreline should have been 3-1. in the final, the first half was a joy to watch. the 2nd and ET were bad at times but we just didn't have as good of legs as the french(african) midfield.

i hope that our next coach adapts a more complete all around game like lippi did. who knows maybe in the future we will have a foreign coach to shake things up.
Click to expand...

Italy should have lost against the Aussies but the ref was too scared or paid off! It was bollocks and everyone knows it.
 
R

Rocky

Forza Suarez! (ps brotha can you spare a dime?)
OrgulloVikingo;2541419 said:
Italy should have lost against the Aussies but the ref was too scared or paid off! It was bollocks and everyone knows it.
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Right the Italians paid the ref off so much they told him to send off Materazzi for tackling his own team-mate just so they could sneak the Grosso-not-so-much-a-dive under the radar so nobody would suspect that those greasy Italians paid the ref off. Well it's a shame it didn't work so well, because nothing really gets past you does it, OrgulloIdioto? I mean, if you could see what nobody else could see, what are you doing here on soccergaming? It's obvious you're more suited to be a detective than a measely forum-goer. But you've settled for the latter, damn shame. But instead you've decided to post away and make yourself look a ******* idiot. Go put those awesome detective skills you have and get as far away from this forum as you can.
 
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