The anti-holiday thread

Bobby;2458715 said:

I told you Simon. Do not bash the right, he will crush you.

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BTW, Rob, is there a contrast for you between Capitalism and Democracy?

vitu;2461216 said:

I don' celebrate Christmas b/c nowhere in the bible is written that Jesus was born on December 25th and at the time of his birth the bible says that shepherds were outside taking care of their sheep. Now who does that during the winter? I personally believe that the whole Christmas holiday comes from paganism. Jesus never celebrated his birthday and never didn't ask people to celebrate it. It's not written on the bible. However he did ask his disciples to remember his death after he had the last dinner with them yet people don't do it on a certain day like they celebrate his fake birthday.

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1) If you're going to celebrate his birthday, then you have to pick some date.

2) Winters are shockingly mild in the Middle East.

vitu;2461216 said:

I don' celebrate Christmas b/c nowhere in the bible is written that Jesus was born on December 25th and at the time of his birth the bible says that shepherds were outside taking care of their sheep. Now who does that during the winter? I personally believe that the whole Christmas holiday comes from paganism. Jesus never celebrated his birthday and never didn't ask people to celebrate it. It's not written on the bible. However he did ask his disciples to remember his death after he had the last dinner with them yet people don't do it on a certain day like they celebrate his fake birthday.

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Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Not relevant.

Exactly 40 days after Ash Wednesday(the seventh Wednesday before Easter Sunday). The 40 day period(begining with Ash Wednesday) is known as Lent. The final week of Lent begins with Palm Sunday(day 40) and culminates with the following Sunday being Easter Sunday. The Friday of that week, known as Holy Week, is recognized(yearly) as the day of His death. If you do not choose to ignore Sundays(they are not counted as being part of the season since Sunday is the day of the Resurrection), then the final week of Lent will not begin with day 40, but there will be exactly 40 days starting from Ash Wednesday and ending on the Saturday before Easter Sunday(the Eastern church does not ignore the Sundays). There most certainly is a well-defined structure and so, contrary to your misinformed statement, it is infact "done" on a certain day.

EDIT:
There;s a difference between not celebrating Christmas at all, and debating as to when Christmas should be celebrated(which, again, is not relevant as those that do celebrate will not be losing sleep over it). If you're not Catholic, you won't celebrate Chirstmas. You will have a Christmas holiday(from work/school) on which you will, most likely, exchange "gifts" with your family and friends. Electronic gadgets seem to be a hit these days. If you're claiming the lack of evidence that His birthday is on the 25th of December(therby attempting to debate as to when Christmas should be celebrated) as your sole reason not to celebrate Christmas then part of the above post(shown below) deals with that:

ShiftyPowers;2461569 said:

...If you're going to celebrate his birthday, then you have to pick some date.....

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and that date isn't particularly significant.

vitu;2461216 said:

I don' celebrate Christmas b/c nowhere in the bible is written that Jesus was born on December 25th and at the time of his birth the bible says that shepherds were outside taking care of their sheep. Now who does that during the winter? I personally believe that the whole Christmas holiday comes from paganism. Jesus never celebrated his birthday and never didn't ask people to celebrate it. It's not written on the bible. However he did ask his disciples to remember his death after he had the last dinner with them yet people don't do it on a certain day like they celebrate his fake birthday.

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Horus was born on December 25th [S14] [S15] of the virgin Isis-Meri.[S16] [S17] [S18] [D] [M] His birth was accompanied by a star in the east [S19], which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior [M] [S20] [S21] At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 [S22] [S23] he was baptized by a figure known as Anup [M] and thus began his ministry[S24] [M]. Horus had 12 disciples[S25] he traveled about with, performing miracles[S26] [S27]such as healing the sick[S28] and walking on water[S29].

Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.

Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.

First of all, the birth sequence is completely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. [S60] [M] These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times: The Three Kings.[S61] [S62] The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th.[S63] [M] This is why the Three Kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun.

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.

Straight PWNage

newbie original;2461667 said:

If you're not Catholic, you won't celebrate Chirstmas.

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Right.

Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepherds were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus' birth. The book Daily Life in The Time of Jesus states: "The flocks...passed the winter under cover; and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shepherds were in the fields."--(New York, 1962), Henri Daniel-Rops, p. 228

The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: "The reason for establishing December 25th as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun'...The Romans Saturnalia (a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture and to the renewed power of the sun), also took place at this time, and some Christians customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration."--- (1977), Vol. 6, p. 666.

Now towards the "astrological proof"....This is what the bible says about Astrology:

Deut. 18:10-12: "There should not be found in you anyone who...employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens...for everybody doing there things is something detestable to Jehova."

To the Babylonians he said: "Let your astrologers, your star-gazers who foretell your future month by month, persist, and save you! But look, they are gone like chaff...So much for your magicians with whom you have trafficked all your life: they have stumbled off, each of his own way, and there is no one to save you."--- Isa. 47:13-15, NE

Why base Jesus' birth on something that was in the first place disapproved by god? (Astrology)

Second of all the three Magi were actually astrologers from the east. Matt. 2:1,2 shows it. Stars led astrologers first to King Herod and then to Jesus and that Herod then sought to have Jesus killed. No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star". After they left, Jehova's angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt to safeguard the child. Was that "star" a sign from God of was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

Why would God tell Joseph to flee if that star was "supposely" up there b/c he chose it?

I personally don't base on anything Astrological b/c it's shown in the Bible that God disapproves it. It's like holding on to somebody's word knowing he lies. Look at what happened to the Babylonians. They believed in Astrologers before they did God and the whole city was destroyed.

vitu;2462397 said:

I personally don't base on anything Astrological b/c it's shown in the Bible that God disapproves it. It's like holding on to somebody's word knowing he lies. Look at what happened to the Babylonians. They believed in Astrologers before they did God and the whole city was destroyed.

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haha.


But this isn't astrology.

Horus was born on December 25th [S14] [S15] of the virgin Isis-Meri.[S16] [S17] [S18] [D] [M] His birth was accompanied by a star in the east [S19], which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior [M] [S20] [S21] At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 [S22] [S23] he was baptized by a figure known as Anup [M] and thus began his ministry[S24] [M]. Horus had 12 disciples[S25] he traveled about with, performing miracles[S26] [S27]such as healing the sick[S28] and walking on water[S29].

Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.

Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.

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Vitu, there's a difference between Astrology (bull****) and Astronomy (science). Stop digging the hole, stop being a retard.

ShiftyPowers;2462410 said:

Vitu, there's a difference between Astrology (bull****) and Astronomy (science). Stop digging the hole, stop being a retard.

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It's funny how you just now mentioned "Astronomy". No one said anything about it until you did. I'm not digging no hole. I'm just showing what I base my beliefs on kindly, without bashing or looking down at anybody. How about you stop being an asshole?

Gerrard 17;2462406 said:

haha.


But this isn't astrology.

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I don't have the time to write towards this right now but I will do it later. All you had to say about the Babylonians was "haha"?(:/) wow

vitu;2462397 said:

Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepherds were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus' birth. The book Daily Life in The Time of Jesus states: "The flocks...passed the winter under cover; and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shepherds were in the fields."--(New York, 1962), Henri Daniel-Rops, p. 228

The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: "The reason for establishing December 25th as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun'...The Romans Saturnalia (a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture and to the renewed power of the sun), also took place at this time, and some Christians customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration."--- (1977), Vol. 6, p. 666.

Now towards the "astrological proof"....This is what the bible says about Astrology:

Deut. 18:10-12: "There should not be found in you anyone who...employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens...for everybody doing there things is something detestable to Jehova."

To the Babylonians he said: "Let your astrologers, your star-gazers who foretell your future month by month, persist, and save you! But look, they are gone like chaff...So much for your magicians with whom you have trafficked all your life: they have stumbled off, each of his own way, and there is no one to save you."--- Isa. 47:13-15, NE

Why base Jesus' birth on something that was in the first place disapproved by god? (Astrology)

Second of all the three Magi were actually astrologers from the east. Matt. 2:1,2 shows it. Stars led astrologers first to King Herod and then to Jesus and that Herod then sought to have Jesus killed. No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star". After they left, Jehova's angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt to safeguard the child. Was that "star" a sign from God of was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

Why would God tell Joseph to flee if that star was "supposely" up there b/c he chose it?

I personally don't base on anything Astrological b/c it's shown in the Bible that God disapproves it. It's like holding on to somebody's word knowing he lies. Look at what happened to the Babylonians. They believed in Astrologers before they did God and the whole city was destroyed.

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There is infact evidence that Jesus was born in late December, as was determined by the early Church. It was on the coldest day in the winter, in his birth-place of Israel. It may not be now, but it was then. Although having said that, this amounts to making a mountain out of an anthill....it occured. The date is not as significant as you think.

So you're quoting(and then later agreeing) that God disapproves astrology, right? Where does Jesus' birth come in? That connection is not clear.

Third, fourth and fifth sentences are correct. Sixth sentence is purely your interpretation, which is contrary to is believed by Catholics. Seventh sentence was not clear to me at first, but it is now.

In response to the sixth sentence(first of the 2 questions), I beg to differ since the star was there to bring the Wise Men(you are calling them Magi?, I think) to the place of birth, and THEN to spread the news of Jesus'(the Saviour's) birth, a process which began with the Sheppards(wearing whatever was worn during that season) in the field....looking after their sheep, cattle, buffaloes, cows, bulls,etc.etc.etc. AFTER that, came the message to flee to Egypt. If you believe this sequence of events, it is clear that the star was a sign from God and not from someone seeking to have God's Son killed.

In response to the seventh sentence(another question--->"Why would God tell Joseph to flee if that star was "supposely" up there b/c he chose it?") the star was up there b/c He chose to use it to spread the Good News to all. Those "all" eventually included Herod's men who then, like the three Wise Men, became aware of Jesus' location and would thus represent "someone seeking to have God's Son killed", hence the warning from the angel.

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Parra Power;2462380 said:

Right.

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Haha, I'm presuming you read the remainder of the post as well.

vitu;2462622 said:

I don't have the time to write towards this right now but I will do it later. All you had to say about the Babylonians was "haha"?(:/) wow

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I think the "haha" was directed at you for believing that Babylon nonsense and taking everything you read in the bible as literal truth. Besides, what Kader posted had nothing really to do with astronomy or astrology, it's just evidence that shows how all those ancient religious figures are nothing more than plagurisms of each other.

In any case, why would you even believe in a god that murdered children and babies because their parents believed in astrologers? Why would a supposedly all-powerful god even care who the Babylonians believed in? That's like an insecure bully beating up kids just because they won't be his friend.

::shinji::;2462704 said:

I think the "haha" was directed at you for believing that Babylon nonsense and taking everything you read in the bible as literal truth. Besides, what Kader posted had nothing really to do with astronomy or astrology, it's just evidence that shows how all those ancient religious figures are nothing more than plagurisms of each other.

In any case, why would you even believe in a god that murdered children and babies because their parents believed in astrologers? Why would a supposedly all-powerful god even care who the Babylonians believed in? That's like an insecure bully beating up kids just because they won't be his friend.

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What's stopping you from reading the Koran or some other religious book(and I'm sure that there are many) and making the same comment?

Nobody's forcing you(or him or anyone else) to believe in something(anything, infact). But, that doesn't mean that something is false.

Discussed in above posts.

newbie original;2462720 said:

What's stopping you from reading the Koran or some other religious book(and I'm sure that there are many) and making the same comment?

Nobody's forcing you(or him or anyone else) to believe in something(anything, infact). But, that doesn't mean that something is false.

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Don't worry, I have an even lower opinion of the koran than I do the bible, and that's saying something..

Hey I have no problem with people believing what they want and I know nothing is being forced on me (although religion has and continues to be forced on many throughout the world). I do have a problem with "blind faith" though because it's the complete opposite of rational thinking. Maybe I just don't understand, who knows?

::shinji::;2462727 said:

......I do have a problem with "blind faith" though, maybe I just don't understand, who knows?

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Hehe, not only non-believers, but a lot of people who are believers in Catholicism(I don't know about other religions) would have this problem as well...to varying degrees ofcourse.

newbie original;2462667 said:

So you're quoting(and then later agreeing) that God disapproves astrology, right? Where does Jesus' birth come in? That connection is not clear.

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I think vitu mentions astrology in response to that bold paragraph in Kader's post.